Help me buy a rally car (Oppo Challenge)

"F40LM" (mclarenf1gtr)
12/04/2013 at 14:55 • Filed to: None

So I'm looking to get into rallying. Cheap, cheap rallying. I need a car with AWD.
Preferably non-turbo, as it's a different class but will consider turbo.

Oh, and it needs to be cheap, real cheap, but running.

Bonus points if you find one for sale in southwest ontario Canada.

Begin!

DISCUSSION (36)

Party-vi > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 14:56

How about any old Impreza/Legacy? Bonus points if it has a flat-6.

505Turbeaux > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 14:57

if you can find an old audi 90/100 quattro those were all sticks, and can be had for around a grand running down the road

toadterror > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 14:58

"cheap, real cheap, but running"

You know the answer

Bad Idea Hat > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 14:58

http://londonon.en.craigslist.ca/cto/4179044745…

This is so light on details, someone else who's a better detective may be of service.

Also, craigslist warning.

edit - I'll be damned if London craigslist isn't a whole bunch of NPoCP. 12k for an NSX? WHAT IS WRONG, TELL ME.

Reigntastic > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 15:08

You should probably stick with NA, much easier to maintain.

Brian Silvestro > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 15:12

If you rallied a wagon I'm sure the oppo community could put money together for a sponsorship, you just need to put a giant OPPO sticker on it

http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/4206269964…

Stupidru > Party-vi
12/04/2013 at 15:17

Yes, you can get an Impreza Outback with the 2.2L NA for dirt cheap. And there are tons of DIYs out there for fitting every other possible Subaru part onto it

Rock Bottom > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 15:22

Not sure what sanctioning body you're looking at running, but for Rally America you are limited in what you can race on a novice license.

http://www.rally-america.com/info/2012_Rule…

See Article 2, Rule 2.1.C.2

Racescort666 > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 15:36

Why does it need to be AWD? It will be cheaper with 2WD and you will learn how to drive better.

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 15:46

specialstage.com has a classifieds of log booked rally cars. Some are cheap, most are not.

F40LM > Brian Silvestro
12/04/2013 at 16:05

I've been looking at a 98 impreza wagon I found on kijiji.
I'd put the biggest oppo sticker on it ever. fuck it, 3 giant ass stickers; if people would actually sponsor this.

F40LM > Rock Bottom
12/04/2013 at 16:05

I'll look into this further, but I was told that no special license in required. Maybe it's a Canada thing.

F40LM > Bad Idea Hat
12/04/2013 at 16:06

I know. It's craziness!

F40LM > Racescort666
12/04/2013 at 16:07

That's the class we're interested in running.

Brian Silvestro > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 16:07

It is literally my dream to buy a rally car then throw oppo stickers on it. It needs to happen.

Dusty Ventures > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 16:14

In Rally America you need to start in B Spec, Open Light, or Group 2. In NASA and Canadian rally you can start in anything.

F40LM > Brian Silvestro
12/04/2013 at 16:16

You wouldn't happen to be located anywhere near Ontario would you?

It's my friends idea, but I can ask if he want's a thirds man.

Do you think people on oppo would actually throw us some money?

Brian Silvestro > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 16:28

Damn! I'm all the way in Albany, NY. Sorry can't do it. What an opportunity though, thanks for the offer. As for the sponsorship, I'm confident that if you went through with it we'd throw a few bucks your way. You should make a post to gauge the community.

F40LM > Brian Silvestro
12/04/2013 at 16:49

Will do. And no problem!

Dusty Ventures > F40LM
12/04/2013 at 16:53

First off, you're better off buying a built car than a stock street car and trying to build it yourself. Cages have to be built to exact FIA specifications and cost a good $2-3,000 on their own. Factor in seats, belts, intercom, suspension, wheels, tires, etc all on top of the price of the car itself and it adds up quick. So here's what I found for built rally cars within "reasonable" distance of you. FYI, you're not going turbo AWD rallying for less than $15,000, and that's the very bottom.

1999 MK3 VW Golf in Toronto - $8,000 (great car, just went up against it in Canada. It also just won the Open 2WD class national championship)

1987 Porsche 944 in Peace River, Alberta - $7,500 (Stef will become your biggest fan)

2001 Ford Focus in Philadelphia - $9,000

1999 Impreza 2.5 RS Wagon in Nova Scotia - $10,000 OBO

1985 Merkur XR4Ti in North Grafton, MA - $9,500 (I co-drove this car last year. It's fun, quick, and one of the best and most affordable ways to go RWD rallying. Plus it's an hour from me and I'd be happy to transport it for no more than the cost of fuel)

Stef Schrader > Dusty Ventures
12/04/2013 at 17:16

STEF WOULD BE YOUR BIGGEST FAN!

(And no joke, the 944's cage just in LeMons-spec—much less beefy than rally folk require—was around $2100 on its own.)

Dusty Ventures > Stef Schrader
12/04/2013 at 17:21

There was a white 944 sitting by the road in someone's yard near the Kitty Smiles race shop. No license plate, looked like it was maybe possibly for sale despite not having a sign. I was tempted to take a look.

Dusty Ventures > Brian Silvestro
12/04/2013 at 17:22

Our rally cars are getting Oppo stickers next season ;)

Stef Schrader > Dusty Ventures
12/04/2013 at 17:23

Buy it.

Brian Silvestro > Dusty Ventures
12/04/2013 at 17:25

YES! Half my dream has come true! You're the man.

Dusty Ventures > Stef Schrader
12/04/2013 at 17:46

Remember that conversation about me being a co-driver because I have no money?

Stef Schrader > Dusty Ventures
12/04/2013 at 17:52

Find money. Buy it.

Dusty Ventures > Stef Schrader
12/04/2013 at 18:23

If I'm buying a car it's going to be a rally car. If I'm buying a rally Porsche it's going to be a rally 911

Stef Schrader > Dusty Ventures
12/04/2013 at 18:45

OOH. I really, really like the Gulf 911 just before the 944 got in the shot. I like that one MUCH bettererererererrrrr.

Jeremy Bloyd-Peshkin > Dusty Ventures
12/04/2013 at 19:08

I must be missing something about roll cages. I read the Rally America rulebook, and then I went and read all the FIA appendices it referred to. Roll cages don't seem that difficult as long as you use the right tube sizes and gusset the appropriate joints. Am I missing something, or is the cost mostly related to the time it takes to fabricate one?

I ask as someone who would really like to build roll cages.

Dusty Ventures > Jeremy Bloyd-Peshkin
12/04/2013 at 19:55

Time, material (1.75x0.095 DOM tubing is about $7/ft, you can expect to use a good 60-100 feet of tubing on the cage, that's $700 right there), the skill and knowledge to do good 360° welds around the entire joint (including the ones pressed against the roof) and have them not look questionable, etc. And the cage in the rulebook shouldn't be viewed as "all I need to be safe," it's just a baseline requirement. I've seen cages that were "FIA legal" but absolutely terrifying in their construction. A good cage builder knows how to build a cage that exceeds mandated tolerances without adding a ton of weight. It's not just about building a cage that will "pass" or building a cage that will "hold up", but building a cage that, if it meets a truly irresistible force, will break in the right places first.

Case in point: This car had a cage built well beyond the written requirements, done by a very skilled and experienced cage builder. It took a tree at 100 mph. The driver walked off with bruising and a concussion.

Kinja'd!!!

Jeremy Bloyd-Peshkin > Dusty Ventures
12/04/2013 at 21:16

Dusty,

That's amazing. The way you describe it reminds me of most high skills and old crafts. There is an element of skill, but also an element of art. Both are required to make something great.

Clearly, my only viable option is to spend the remainder of the evening looking at pictures of cages and crashed cages to begin an understanding of what fails where and how. At the end of the day I can read all I want and I can do lots of math, but I understand by seeing. And doing, but it's going to be an unfortunately long while before I have a location to build the rally car I've been planning.

While I've got you here, I'd like to ask a question that extends beyond cages. What other technical resources do you recommend for rallying in general? I've read every rulebook and every spec sheet I can find. I've read people's write-ups, and basically I'll read anything I can get my hands on. But you. You know places I wouldn't think to look as an outsider. What should I read? Watch? Look at?

Sorry if I'm bothering you, but I'm a bit obsessed.

Dusty Ventures > Jeremy Bloyd-Peshkin
12/04/2013 at 22:15

No need to apologize, you're definitely not a bother. I started using the same method you're using; hunting down any and every resource to make myself as informed as possible. It sounds like you've got most of the bases covered. For a more per-event sense of how things operate you can read the supplemental regulations for a rally. The provide all the specific information and technical details for an individual event. Typically you can find these in the "competitor" section of any event website. Also, ask questions, constantly. Rally people tend to enjoy talking about rally, especially if it may help encourage someone else to start rallying. We love rally and we want more people to love rally like we do, so we're glad to help and to share. You may have found it already, but NASA Rally Sport has a nice informative section they call "Rally University." It's got a lot of good info in it.

F40LM > Dusty Ventures
12/04/2013 at 23:31

Thanks so much for all the information! I will talk it over with the guys.

Jeremy Bloyd-Peshkin > Dusty Ventures
12/05/2013 at 06:34

Thanks!
You're awesome.

skiboatm > F40LM
12/05/2013 at 08:17

I had a fully prepped Talon TSi that was amazing at rally, had a full cage and forged internals with a big 16G turbo and a DSMlink ecu. Bought it off someone who didn't know what they had for $2000, loved that car to death!